tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516189026477178777.post6463476282053402658..comments2024-03-27T22:32:02.739+01:00Comments on Beneath the Stains of Time: The Locked Room Reader V: A Selection of Lost Detective StoriesTomCathttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03415176301265218101noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516189026477178777.post-73503031902655941642016-08-05T23:38:10.124+02:002016-08-05T23:38:10.124+02:00I had no idea Rawson had a lost story to his name!...I had no idea Rawson had a lost story to his name! It's the first time I've heard about it. And again, it happened to a writer who was closely associated with the impossible crime story. <br /><br />As if the idea of a lost detective story isn't enough. No, no. They've to be locked room stories as well. <br /><br />Anyway, thanks for the info! TomCathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03415176301265218101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516189026477178777.post-49244648719292995002016-08-05T22:53:38.653+02:002016-08-05T22:53:38.653+02:00Forgot to mention that said fifth Diavolo story wa...Forgot to mention that said fifth Diavolo story was to be titled "Murder from the Grave." Certainly sounds hardcore impossible-crimey! / Denny LienAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516189026477178777.post-33717237326697146252016-08-05T22:52:06.703+02:002016-08-05T22:52:06.703+02:00Don't forget that a fifth "Don Diavolo, t...Don't forget that a fifth "Don Diavolo, the Scarlet Wizard" novella by Clayton Rawson (writing as "Stuart Towne") was promised for the Feb. 1941 issue of RED STAR MYSTERY -- which was never published. I'd presume Rawson would have already written it, but that it's now lost (or Battered Silicon or some other publisher would have ferreted it out and published it). The Towne stories are not up to Rawson's "Merlini" work, but I'd gladly snap up the Diavolo novella if it ever does surface. / Denny LienAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516189026477178777.post-15210690138805054882016-08-04T08:13:35.752+02:002016-08-04T08:13:35.752+02:00Nope. Nope. TomCathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03415176301265218101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516189026477178777.post-37421679499868638712016-08-03T19:42:45.683+02:002016-08-03T19:42:45.683+02:00Is this a reference to Steins;Gate?Is this a reference to Steins;Gate?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516189026477178777.post-22354289772667342802016-08-03T10:11:12.169+02:002016-08-03T10:11:12.169+02:00Thanks!Thanks!TomCathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03415176301265218101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516189026477178777.post-52053810923418848532016-08-03T10:10:52.148+02:002016-08-03T10:10:52.148+02:00Thanks!Thanks!TomCathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03415176301265218101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516189026477178777.post-71937996845579978612016-08-03T10:08:52.759+02:002016-08-03T10:08:52.759+02:00A-a... Towe-er of B-babel? I-impossible stew? Of i...A-a... Towe-er of B-babel? I-impossible stew? Of impossible crimes!? <br /><br />... <br /><br />Guys, call CERN. We're going to break open a time-portal! TomCathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03415176301265218101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516189026477178777.post-26833861556383376822016-08-03T10:04:54.866+02:002016-08-03T10:04:54.866+02:00@Barry: there are degrees of mechanical solutions....@Barry: there are degrees of mechanical solutions. Commings'"Murder Under Glass" has both an original problem (murder inside a sealed room of glass) and a clever, but mechanical, explanation. Compare this to messy, overly complex solution from Carr's <i>The Problem of the Wire Cage</i>.<br /><br />And what if <i>One for the Devil</i> has some impossible crimes as new and original as "Bones for Davy Jones"? I NEED TO KNOW, BARRY! I NEED TO KNOW!<br /><br />TomCathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03415176301265218101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516189026477178777.post-80467170921978507142016-08-03T02:42:22.731+02:002016-08-03T02:42:22.731+02:00I would suggest that by the late 1940s, the fair p...I would suggest that by the late 1940s, the fair play mystery was tapped out, in that the fair play possibilities of that social system and that level of technology had been used up. However, by now there has been sufficient social and technological change to fill up the well with new ideas for fair play mysteries (except in Japan). The problem is that I don't see hardly anyone using the new opportunities here in the West.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516189026477178777.post-73545462362560187322016-08-03T01:48:25.684+02:002016-08-03T01:48:25.684+02:00Great read.Great read.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516189026477178777.post-52150607846289280422016-08-03T00:09:59.928+02:002016-08-03T00:09:59.928+02:00Merely two?
Paul Halter wrote one--though not, to...Merely two?<br /><br />Paul Halter wrote one--though not, to my taste, one of his best--that contains seven impossible situations.Barry Erganghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04305184548497082776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516189026477178777.post-30173104340525138072016-08-03T00:05:14.958+02:002016-08-03T00:05:14.958+02:00Although the solutions to some of Commings' Ba...Although the solutions to some of Commings' Banner stories that I've read in the Crippen & Landru collection were a little too mechanical for my taste, I nevertheless enjoyed them. Talbot's RIM OF THE PIT--though some disparage it--is, to my mind, one of the greatest impossible crime novels of them all. <br /><br />I have to agree with Anonymous about the hardboiled and noir schools dominating the market after WWII, but many a hardboiled detective novel was fairly-clued, and some even included locked rooms and other seeming impossibilities. <br /><br />But as for the fair-play locked-room/impossible crime story being "tapped out, one only has to look to Paul Halter for some brilliant takes on the genre. Granted that he's far from stellar when it comes to characterization, that his sense of atmosphere is only so-so, and that he scrupulously avoids the big dramatic scene, some of his plot devices are nevertheless extremely clever.<br /><br />Overall, however, it's a pity that these authors and others you cite are, barring happy future surprises, lost to fans of this kind of mystery. (May I live long enough to read them if they surface!)Barry Erganghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04305184548497082776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516189026477178777.post-10756054180412390902016-08-02T23:43:42.585+02:002016-08-02T23:43:42.585+02:00Fascinating post, TomCat. Nice work.Fascinating post, TomCat. Nice work.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516189026477178777.post-28241209601388160942016-08-02T21:48:31.224+02:002016-08-02T21:48:31.224+02:00Ah, but if Hangman and Rim are anything to go by, ...Ah, but if Hangman and Rim are anything to go by, Half-Witness would have been an impossible stew...no mere two impossibilities, but a Tower of Babel I tell you!JJ @ The Invisible Eventhttps://theinvisibleevent.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516189026477178777.post-13030167330950819172016-08-02T21:20:43.550+02:002016-08-02T21:20:43.550+02:00Commings, King and Talbot tried to continue the tr...Commings, King and Talbot tried to continue the tradition of the fair-play and locked room mystery, but they got rejected. <br /><br />During the 1980s, Resnicow showed new variations on the locked room theme and some interesting impossible crime ideas (e.g. corpse puzzle) have come out of Japan. So who knows what we could have seen, if publishers had continued to back the traditional mystery to the hilt. TomCathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03415176301265218101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516189026477178777.post-48870530866708618292016-08-02T21:06:28.854+02:002016-08-02T21:06:28.854+02:00I didn't say they were good (although some of ...I didn't say they were good (although some of them were, Spillane and Ross Macdonald in particular, and Chandler did his best work after the war), just that they were the dominant mode. The hard-boiled p.i. has its own set of virtues. I imagine that the destructiveness of the war also changed the tastes of mystery readers, because the hard-boiled p. I. existed long before the war, he just was not dominant. The fair-play mystery was probably tapped out by that point anyway; there are just so many variations you can have on the locked room.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516189026477178777.post-36810074377363863622016-08-02T20:56:33.461+02:002016-08-02T20:56:33.461+02:00Obviously, it's a fake, but, apparently, the c...Obviously, it's a fake, but, apparently, the cover seemed far more credible in the days before Photoshop, which, in this case, was the early 1980s. Even a simple fake, such as this cover, required some handy work. Pronzini also wrote a convincing account of how he came across the book with a report on the obscure, wartime publisher. I think this included an explanation as to why the cover looked similar to that of other publishers. <br /><br />Without the internet at your fingertips, it was far easier to full for such a hoax. <br /> TomCathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03415176301265218101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516189026477178777.post-80151536421006879002016-08-02T20:33:29.557+02:002016-08-02T20:33:29.557+02:00You would actually pick The Affair of the Half-Wit...You would actually pick <i>The Affair of the Half-Witness</i> over <i>One for the Devil</i>? <br /><br />I love Talbot as much as the next locked room fanboy, but Commings' story is a Carr-style mystery novel and features two impossible murders! TWO! If I had to pick between the two, it would be Commings. <br /><br />Maybe we can ask Satan a favor and ask for both of them? We have mutual friend in Carr. ;) <br /><br />TomCathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03415176301265218101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516189026477178777.post-69350736205852174362016-08-02T20:24:53.768+02:002016-08-02T20:24:53.768+02:00Well, the writers who had their books published in...Well, the writers who had their books published in their accustomed style, after 1945, were all household names with an established audience. Ones who suffered from these rejections lacked name recognition and had a much smaller readership. They never got an opportunity to work at building up such an audience. <br /><br />I agree there must have been some bombs among them, but Talbot's follow-up to <i>Hangman's Handyman</i> and <i>Rim of the Pit</i> does not sound exactly like a dull dud to me. Same goes for Commings' attempt at the novel-length mysteries. Mike Hammer and his hardboiled friends seem like a very bad and poor trade-off for these lost mysteries. <br />TomCathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03415176301265218101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516189026477178777.post-51525183465397711472016-08-02T19:12:29.123+02:002016-08-02T19:12:29.123+02:00Never heard of that Philip Jacoby hoax. But I don&...Never heard of that Philip Jacoby hoax. But I don't know how any real collector or bookseller could be fooled by that obvious fake. The design template is clearly lifted from Penguin Books and that similarity alone ought to have been a red flag.J F Norrishttp://prettysinister.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516189026477178777.post-42937064550121105412016-08-02T19:08:09.881+02:002016-08-02T19:08:09.881+02:00Yeah, given how many accepted classics have linger...Yeah, given how many accepted classics have lingered and drifted out of print and beyond the availability of most mortals, it shouldn't really be a surprise that some possible classics never even got to see the light of day to begin with. It is entirely possible that they weren't especially good, of course, but I'm a firm believer in reading a book and discovering it to not be to your taste rather than having to spend a lifetime wondering!<br /><br />Ans as much as you'd love to see the Commings, I'd personally bur all ther others you mention for someone to stumble across that Hake Talbot manuscript and pass it onto Ramble House (the current publisher of Talbot's first two novels). Aaaah, a man can dream...JJ @ The Invisible Eventhttps://theinvisibleevent.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5516189026477178777.post-24516811463171687422016-08-02T18:43:48.612+02:002016-08-02T18:43:48.612+02:00On the other hand, look on the bright side; if the...On the other hand, look on the bright side; if the didn't sell, a certain percentage of them were probably bombs. Something always looks better to us when we know we can't have it. I don't know if we can really support a case that publishers would not publish fair-play style mysteries after 1945, when we see that Freeman Wills Crofts, Agatha Christie, H.C. Bailey, John Rhode, etc. all had books published in their accustomed style after 1945. It is just that mighty Mike Hammer and the hardboiled p.i. was the dominant mode of production after 1947.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com